I love this substack and I really like the honesty of this particular post where you talk about your ego taking over. But I see ego also in the belief that anything can change by "working outside of the system." I don't believe that there is an outside. It's all only egos and counter egos. All we can do is choose something that does not repel us, and try to do it honestly and with humility. So why not continue with the Green Party knowing you will never win a seat? Just standing up for the people of Gaza from within a political party during an election -- in the way that you did -- adds a small piece of light to the world.
Thanks Laila and when are we going to talk? I don't think you can take ego out of many if not all things. The main thing is to be aware of it. A bottom-up system would, I hope, do away with the hero myth of politics, of an elite who can fix things for the rest of us. It would be much more about the collective not the individual. At least that's the hope. We should talk about the Greens and Gaza.
I just read a qoute by Alex Comfort, "The centralised power of government', he wrote ', is today dependent for its continued function upon a supply of individuals whose personalities and attitudes in no way differ from those of admitted psychopathic delinquents, egocentric psychopaths'. Alex argued that individuals who find themselves in positions of power come pre-spoiled because the state deliberately selects delinquents for positions"
This clearly means you have no place in parliamentary democracy or the state 😁 with regard to people's assemblies I tend to think that creating something new will be organic, people will attend the community councils when local issues arise and I think like Bookchin that we should perhaps use these existing assemblies? We have a much bigger problem in that there is no real progressive education though newspapers, pamphlets, books, leaflets or night classes like there was in 1930s people see the problem as conspiracies or billionaires and a load of shit in between not American imperialism and capitalism
I agree on the organic nature of communalism. It has to start where people have the greatest interest and concern eg a hospital. As for the psychopathic nature of those who seek power, I tend to agree. Certainly, arrogance that your views give you the right to decide the circumstances of others. On the other hand, I also believe that behaviours are created by systems and the parliamentary system encourages the worst in participants.
Even the best of us can overinflate ourselves, I always liked that anarchists didn't applaud speaker, even if we understand the power dynamics being the center of a group can change us
I have a lot of respect for your work especially around a more participatory democracy. I have voted Green in the past but the weird stance on women as 'non-men,' as pro medicalising kids FOREVER is a big no for me . The party has thrown out anyone who is even vaguely "gender critical". Why believe the science around climate but deny biology? There will be no ecological revolution without women and the UN population guys know it too. You basically need big bucks to win is the truth but I am glad you had the experience and it connected you to where you live.
Thanks Suzanne. I'm honoured to have a comment from you! I hear you about the Greens and trans. I would prefer a more open and inclusive approach, but I have no sway in the party whatsoever. I don't see why we cannot find room for all views that are tolerant of difference. I'm not sure it should be a party political issue in any case.
Enjoyed reading that Carne & it was particularly refreshing for your honesty & self reflection.
You are an inspiration & it illustrates that the journey towards anarchy is a process…
I’ve been trying to reach out to my local green councillor for a while to discuss a local assembly & finally got a reply & invitation to discuss after forwarding this substack post so hopefully it will inspire him to help me! I suspect that he might not be too keen on just administering assembly directives but fingers crossed! After all, “Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas”
Thanks for the comment, Bernard. I fear most political parties and operatives are very much in the elective-representative paradigm. And I also think that in some ways they are not the right people to institute people's assemblies which must be non-partisan and politically inclusive. And then there's the turkey problem...
Carne, I have admired your work, your thinking, for some years now. And recently a friend gave me your book Independent Diplomat which I have just begun to read.
I was not aware you stood as a candidate in the recent elections but there are many things an not aware of.
I loved your honest account of your observation of the personal taking over the altruistic for better good- the ego feeling plumped and massaged despite every good intention mostly; as humans we seem to be flawed in this regard, perhaps Kant when he likened the impossibility of anything entirely straight being built from that which man is made was entirely correct. We see it often in group dynamics too- almost the impossibility of consistent genial consent even when the original premise signatured common good.
I for one decided to spoil my ballot in a way it would count in order to demonstrate my discontent in an entrenched party system that has become entirely self serving any way one looks at it. Mine was a safe Labour seat. Friends frowned at my decision but it was the only way I could personally say I didn’t believe in the system. In the end that too was self serving.
Thanks, Shernaz. Thanks for your kind remarks about my work and for reading Independent Diplomat. I wrote it a while ago now and it doesn't reflect my more recent anarchist thinking, but it was the start of that road and I still stand by my critique of that dread practice, diplomacy. As for what happened to me when I ran for MP, my thought is that it is systems that encourage/make certain behaviours and it was the system that brought out the worst in me. I have little faith in intrinsic characteristics. We are creatures of context. And I'm with you on spoiling the ballot! One of the strange parts of the vote count is that all the candidates or their representatives check the spoiled ballots to ensure they're not missing any votes. I found that process quite intriguing. It was interesting to see what people wrote (they didn't always write of course). Thanks for commenting.
We can be groomed to act or think in certain ways which we often are by the systems in place and yes context is everything.
We are in effect herds. Presently groomed to consume of course amongst other things.
Again thank you for your clarity.
Interesting the curiosity about comments on spoiled ballots. Even though the space was very small I managed to write “Free Palestine” and “Repeal the GRA” or “women’s sex based rights”- of course I would have preferred to refer to the consequences of creating fictions in law which is what the GRA is. Am glad you approve my action! I feel even more vindicated. 😁
Thanks Carne, relevant observations! Go speak with David van Reijbrouck, if you don't know him already. He has extensive experience with assemblies in Belgium and the Netherlands!
Thanks Klaus. Lovely to hear from you and I hopey you're well. We're now back in London so if you ever come this way please let me know. Thanks for the suggestion of David van Reijbrouck. I will look him up.
This is a good honest article, and one Im can relate to being a member of a political party myself, during the election I found myself at odds with party politics and I still do now. I've had a breather from it all these past few weeks and can quite honestly say I don't really want to go back. Representative democracy doesn't work, so how can I really promote it? Be good to hear more about the participatory democracy movement and although I'm sceptical about Extinction Rebellion, at least there getting the idea out there
Thanks Alex. It's great, as ever, to hear from you and I hope things are going well. As usual, we find ourselves of like mind. I will write more about participatory democracy.
Thanks Emma! Very kind of you. I have learned that being self-critical is a good, sly method to get people to take you more seriously. Laila once told me that your father used this technique inside the FO after the Iran revolution debacle. But it's not just a ruse. Politics does indeed tend to make you an arsehole, particularly egotistical white middle-aged men!
A couple of years back I want to a talk by someone from https://www.sortitionfoundation.org/ I too think more citizens assemblies would be good BUT I found out they are costly to do properly.
Thanks Mary. I'm a bit of a sceptic of sortition. Yes, it may deliver good decisions. But is it genuinely more representative? Won't conventional politicians be able to respond that they are elected and the sortition-chosen assembly is not? I see inclusive people's assemblies (confusingly, some use the term 'citizens' assemblies' for sortition assemblies) as more legitimate because they include everyone. They also breed a culture of genuine self-government which is not the product of sortition, though supporters of sortition argue that the experience of these assemblies eg on climate is genuinely transformative.
It's worth going to one of their talks where they go through why sortition is more representative. For one thing in the longer term I can see assemblies morphing back into councils because it is the nature of things that people come to see anything as "just a talking shop" or it's subject to a takeover by a faction with strong oppionons and support. People start off in hope but it takes a certain kind of discipline to keep it up. Local Quaker Meetings for Business are a good case in point. Everyone can attend and it's encouraged but few do so it's left to a subset to keep everything working.
Despite being an anarchist at heart, I do have a tendency to be attracted to the tribal aspect of party politics. But only so much. I recently joined Plaid Cymru, because I align with them the most, and want to support them. However, I'm finding it uncomfortable already, because I want to have a collaborative attitude, not a confrontational one. It seems that being a member of a political party means it's obligatory to rubbish your 'opponents', not based on their actual politics or behaviour, but because they're on the 'wrong team'. So I think I'm going to become an independent again, politically. Thanks for sharing your insights and experience.
I think we are of like mind. It did feel obligatory to rubbish our opponents during the election. This of course this was not conducive to future cooperation. I'm glad to say however that the four new Green MPs are instinctually more collaborative. I don't think they will be criticising Labour for the sake of it, but to hold the government to a higher standard, especially on issues which it neglects like inequality, poverty and Gaza.
That's good to know. My comrades might be right about our new Labour MP, but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, seeing as he has good politics.
I love this substack and I really like the honesty of this particular post where you talk about your ego taking over. But I see ego also in the belief that anything can change by "working outside of the system." I don't believe that there is an outside. It's all only egos and counter egos. All we can do is choose something that does not repel us, and try to do it honestly and with humility. So why not continue with the Green Party knowing you will never win a seat? Just standing up for the people of Gaza from within a political party during an election -- in the way that you did -- adds a small piece of light to the world.
Thanks Laila and when are we going to talk? I don't think you can take ego out of many if not all things. The main thing is to be aware of it. A bottom-up system would, I hope, do away with the hero myth of politics, of an elite who can fix things for the rest of us. It would be much more about the collective not the individual. At least that's the hope. We should talk about the Greens and Gaza.
I just read a qoute by Alex Comfort, "The centralised power of government', he wrote ', is today dependent for its continued function upon a supply of individuals whose personalities and attitudes in no way differ from those of admitted psychopathic delinquents, egocentric psychopaths'. Alex argued that individuals who find themselves in positions of power come pre-spoiled because the state deliberately selects delinquents for positions"
This clearly means you have no place in parliamentary democracy or the state 😁 with regard to people's assemblies I tend to think that creating something new will be organic, people will attend the community councils when local issues arise and I think like Bookchin that we should perhaps use these existing assemblies? We have a much bigger problem in that there is no real progressive education though newspapers, pamphlets, books, leaflets or night classes like there was in 1930s people see the problem as conspiracies or billionaires and a load of shit in between not American imperialism and capitalism
And, as ever, Nigel, many thanks for the interesting comment.
I agree on the organic nature of communalism. It has to start where people have the greatest interest and concern eg a hospital. As for the psychopathic nature of those who seek power, I tend to agree. Certainly, arrogance that your views give you the right to decide the circumstances of others. On the other hand, I also believe that behaviours are created by systems and the parliamentary system encourages the worst in participants.
Even the best of us can overinflate ourselves, I always liked that anarchists didn't applaud speaker, even if we understand the power dynamics being the center of a group can change us
I have a lot of respect for your work especially around a more participatory democracy. I have voted Green in the past but the weird stance on women as 'non-men,' as pro medicalising kids FOREVER is a big no for me . The party has thrown out anyone who is even vaguely "gender critical". Why believe the science around climate but deny biology? There will be no ecological revolution without women and the UN population guys know it too. You basically need big bucks to win is the truth but I am glad you had the experience and it connected you to where you live.
Thanks Suzanne. I'm honoured to have a comment from you! I hear you about the Greens and trans. I would prefer a more open and inclusive approach, but I have no sway in the party whatsoever. I don't see why we cannot find room for all views that are tolerant of difference. I'm not sure it should be a party political issue in any case.
Enjoyed reading that Carne & it was particularly refreshing for your honesty & self reflection.
You are an inspiration & it illustrates that the journey towards anarchy is a process…
I’ve been trying to reach out to my local green councillor for a while to discuss a local assembly & finally got a reply & invitation to discuss after forwarding this substack post so hopefully it will inspire him to help me! I suspect that he might not be too keen on just administering assembly directives but fingers crossed! After all, “Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas”
Thanks for the comment, Bernard. I fear most political parties and operatives are very much in the elective-representative paradigm. And I also think that in some ways they are not the right people to institute people's assemblies which must be non-partisan and politically inclusive. And then there's the turkey problem...
Carne, I have admired your work, your thinking, for some years now. And recently a friend gave me your book Independent Diplomat which I have just begun to read.
I was not aware you stood as a candidate in the recent elections but there are many things an not aware of.
I loved your honest account of your observation of the personal taking over the altruistic for better good- the ego feeling plumped and massaged despite every good intention mostly; as humans we seem to be flawed in this regard, perhaps Kant when he likened the impossibility of anything entirely straight being built from that which man is made was entirely correct. We see it often in group dynamics too- almost the impossibility of consistent genial consent even when the original premise signatured common good.
I for one decided to spoil my ballot in a way it would count in order to demonstrate my discontent in an entrenched party system that has become entirely self serving any way one looks at it. Mine was a safe Labour seat. Friends frowned at my decision but it was the only way I could personally say I didn’t believe in the system. In the end that too was self serving.
Thanks, Shernaz. Thanks for your kind remarks about my work and for reading Independent Diplomat. I wrote it a while ago now and it doesn't reflect my more recent anarchist thinking, but it was the start of that road and I still stand by my critique of that dread practice, diplomacy. As for what happened to me when I ran for MP, my thought is that it is systems that encourage/make certain behaviours and it was the system that brought out the worst in me. I have little faith in intrinsic characteristics. We are creatures of context. And I'm with you on spoiling the ballot! One of the strange parts of the vote count is that all the candidates or their representatives check the spoiled ballots to ensure they're not missing any votes. I found that process quite intriguing. It was interesting to see what people wrote (they didn't always write of course). Thanks for commenting.
“We are creatures of context”- how very true.
Of course.
We can be groomed to act or think in certain ways which we often are by the systems in place and yes context is everything.
We are in effect herds. Presently groomed to consume of course amongst other things.
Again thank you for your clarity.
Interesting the curiosity about comments on spoiled ballots. Even though the space was very small I managed to write “Free Palestine” and “Repeal the GRA” or “women’s sex based rights”- of course I would have preferred to refer to the consequences of creating fictions in law which is what the GRA is. Am glad you approve my action! I feel even more vindicated. 😁
Thanks Carne, relevant observations! Go speak with David van Reijbrouck, if you don't know him already. He has extensive experience with assemblies in Belgium and the Netherlands!
Thanks Klaus. Lovely to hear from you and I hopey you're well. We're now back in London so if you ever come this way please let me know. Thanks for the suggestion of David van Reijbrouck. I will look him up.
Yes. I'm well, I hope you're well as well! And I'll let you know, would be great to see you! As for David - see https://www.davidvanreybrouck.be/en and https://www.davidvanreybrouck.be/en/projects.
This is a good honest article, and one Im can relate to being a member of a political party myself, during the election I found myself at odds with party politics and I still do now. I've had a breather from it all these past few weeks and can quite honestly say I don't really want to go back. Representative democracy doesn't work, so how can I really promote it? Be good to hear more about the participatory democracy movement and although I'm sceptical about Extinction Rebellion, at least there getting the idea out there
Thanks Alex. It's great, as ever, to hear from you and I hope things are going well. As usual, we find ourselves of like mind. I will write more about participatory democracy.
I was gripped by this post, Carne - particularly your brave, self reflective honesty under the ‘bad’ section.
Thanks Emma! Very kind of you. I have learned that being self-critical is a good, sly method to get people to take you more seriously. Laila once told me that your father used this technique inside the FO after the Iran revolution debacle. But it's not just a ruse. Politics does indeed tend to make you an arsehole, particularly egotistical white middle-aged men!
A couple of years back I want to a talk by someone from https://www.sortitionfoundation.org/ I too think more citizens assemblies would be good BUT I found out they are costly to do properly.
Thanks Mary. I'm a bit of a sceptic of sortition. Yes, it may deliver good decisions. But is it genuinely more representative? Won't conventional politicians be able to respond that they are elected and the sortition-chosen assembly is not? I see inclusive people's assemblies (confusingly, some use the term 'citizens' assemblies' for sortition assemblies) as more legitimate because they include everyone. They also breed a culture of genuine self-government which is not the product of sortition, though supporters of sortition argue that the experience of these assemblies eg on climate is genuinely transformative.
It's worth going to one of their talks where they go through why sortition is more representative. For one thing in the longer term I can see assemblies morphing back into councils because it is the nature of things that people come to see anything as "just a talking shop" or it's subject to a takeover by a faction with strong oppionons and support. People start off in hope but it takes a certain kind of discipline to keep it up. Local Quaker Meetings for Business are a good case in point. Everyone can attend and it's encouraged but few do so it's left to a subset to keep everything working.
Despite being an anarchist at heart, I do have a tendency to be attracted to the tribal aspect of party politics. But only so much. I recently joined Plaid Cymru, because I align with them the most, and want to support them. However, I'm finding it uncomfortable already, because I want to have a collaborative attitude, not a confrontational one. It seems that being a member of a political party means it's obligatory to rubbish your 'opponents', not based on their actual politics or behaviour, but because they're on the 'wrong team'. So I think I'm going to become an independent again, politically. Thanks for sharing your insights and experience.
I think we are of like mind. It did feel obligatory to rubbish our opponents during the election. This of course this was not conducive to future cooperation. I'm glad to say however that the four new Green MPs are instinctually more collaborative. I don't think they will be criticising Labour for the sake of it, but to hold the government to a higher standard, especially on issues which it neglects like inequality, poverty and Gaza.
That's good to know. My comrades might be right about our new Labour MP, but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, seeing as he has good politics.